[Pride 2023] Interview with 'Saint Drogo''s Michael J. Ahern and Brandon Perras-Sanchez

Saint Drogo, the sophomore feature from Michael J. Ahern and Brandon Perras-Sanchez premiered back in April at Salem Horror Festival. I had the wonderful opportunity to interview them about the film, their previous work Death Drop Gorgeous, and chat about the state of queer horror (and the horrors of being queer).

Red: Your first feature Death Drop Gorgeous was released on Shudder about a year ago. How has having your debut feature on such a huge platform felt?

Michael J. Ahern: It was a milestone I had no idea we would get to. I think when we were making Death Drop we wanted to take it as far as we could. We thought that, at the very least, we’d throw it up on YouTube at some point or one of those things. We always had the motivation to keep going, but it was a dream come true. We had no foresight of that happening for us, so that was really cool.

Red: After attending Salem Horror in person and having Saint Drogo in a full in-person premiere, how did that feel?

Brandon Perras-Sanchez: Kay [Lynch] has just curated such an amazing festival, and it’s an honor to go there and be a part of it. She’s been working really, really hard. I was there last weekend as well. This weekend she started crying at the end of our movie and said that this was the vision she’s had; the whole weekend was nothing but queer content, and it was enough to where she could make a whole weekend out of it. She was just so ecstatic and happy and it was so nice to see that. The people that come to Salem Horror Fest are a lot nicer than most horror cons. It’s such a welcoming and non-competitive environment that’s awesome for queer filmmakers, actors, volunteers, and directors. There’s just so many great people there. It’s really fun and welcoming, and I hope more people make their way down there. It’s a really awesome crowd and [Kay] has created something that is so, so special.

MJA: I agree.

Red: I follow her on Twitter and she just seems like such a welcoming person. Unfortunately I’ve never made it down there, I’m based in Florida so it’s a bit too long of a flight/drive for me, but I’d absolutely kill to go in-person. What inspired you to take more of a folk horror route this time around. Death Drop was very campy, very ‘80s, so what inspired such a great tonal shift?

MJA: Brandon and I both– Brandon especially– have been pretty big folk horror fans. I think that we just wanted to show what else was in our repertoire. Death Drop was such a good mold of all three of us. Honestly I don’t gravitate towards comedy-horror which is ironic because the first film we made was comedy-horror, so I just wanted to explore a different tone. I wanted to make something that was a little unnerving. This didn’t really seep into Saint Drogo, but I do like a lot of horror/fantasy or magical realism. Pan’s Labyrinth is my favorite movie and, while I wouldn’t really consider it folk horror, it’s definitely like a fable and there’s definitely some fable-ness to Saint Drogo. I think we just wanted to show off a little and try something new, and also put what we learned through Death Drop into motion.

Red: Brandon do you want to add on a little bit more about your love for folk horror because I’m also a huge fan. I feel like it’s having a bit of a resurgence lately and I’m really glad it’s getting a comeback.

BP: Absolutely. I’m such a huge fan of folk horror and I think that so many subgenres are getting so redundant. Nobody’s thinking outside of the box, and I feel like folk horror has just so many options and avenues especially when it verges on horror/fantasy. There’s just so many fairy tales and folklore and mythology where the stories are structured so differently and there’s room for different kinds of backsettings and creatures and magic you can have. It’s just a whole realm that people are finally privy to that you have a lot more freedom with as opposed to doing a zombie movie or a werewolf movie. I feel like all those rules are kind of getting redundant and have people falling into the same traps, and I hope more people explore [folk horror] too. Filming in the Cape in the wintertime also just ended up being very cinematic anyway. I feel like the landscape in a lot of folk horror is a character in those films, so we definitely had that going for us with this film too.

MJA: Yeah for sure! There’s something about being able to create your own lore that can be really exciting. We kind of played around with that, and it’s just really fun for me.

Red: So what inspired the lore for Saint Drogo and the cult situation? That was a really interesting route to take.

BP: I think that what I was saying with creating the mythology of folk horror, they really serve as a cautionary tale. They’ll all have some kind of monster or some sort of magic that is for the protagonist or villain. I think that we wanted to create our own folklore with Christian and Catholic mythology, but not so much of the moniker of the “saint” route. We’re kind of showing the parallels between church congregations and how they keep their churchgoers versus how gay community sort of does similar tactics with keeping their followers. I don’t want to give too much away but realizing both have a similar beautiful form.

MJA: We just kind of ran from there. I think Brandon mostly covered the kernels starting points of why we chose Saint Drogo and the beginnings of that point of religion and how that parallels some of the detriments in our culture that we wanted to highlight.

Red: I picked up on the religious themes, and I thought that was really interesting to weave in. As much as Catholicism has been a detriment to so many of my queer friends who have remained closeted for well into their adulthood, the imagery they have is cool. I liked how it was incorporated into the film, and going the “saint” route is so interesting. I feel like the film deals a lot with isolation and assimilation, how did y’all choose to go with that thematic route?

MJA: Where did that begin Brandon? I think it was somewhere with Death Drop and Saint Drogo, both films are taking a mirror and holding it up to the community in different ways. With Death Drop we did it with a sort of tongue-in-cheek and a little campy “doing stupid shit” type of attitude. This was in the same vein but with more focus on interpersonal relationships. Obviously, on a larger scale with the community, but it started with creating the dynamic between Caleb and Adrian. You write what you know, and a lot of it was just processing a breakup I had just gone through. I think a lot of my experience with codependency and maybe losing a little bit of myself or what I thought was myself definitely seeped into the dynamics between the two leads. I think that’s where it started for me. Also the pressures of mainstreaming gay culture and what we’re supposed to like and not supposed to like, what we’re supposed to be, and its focus on material things, wealth, money, and the haves and have-nots.

BP: I think you also mentioned about having this film be set in P-Town [Cape Cod] in the off-season. One of the things with P-Town is the awful gentrification that is happening there. It’s just become another circuit party destination spot for a certain demographic. P-Town is kind of a microcosm for cities or areas that have a large artist population or queer population. I feel like once everyone realizes how much fun we’re all having, they step in and you just lose your space. Like here in Providence too, we used to have a thriving queer community. The gay bars now all cater to that certain demographic we all know about. I feel like an outcast there, I know Mike does. I walk in and I feel like I want to leave immediately. What I have noticed though is when I go to local metal shows and punk bars, I’m seeing a lot of the queer population and a huge trans population at these bars. I think that’s the natural flow of things. It’s where queer people feel more comfortable and accepted, which is sad because gay bars are no longer that place. But if that’s how they want to market themselves, that’s their loss.

Red: I’m really glad we have similar perspectives on these things. I haven’t gone to our one gay bar here since right before COVID because it’s catering to a very different demographic than what I’m a part of. I prefer the same thing: punk bars and metal shows. It’s just easier to fit in. That does answer one of my other questions as well about Caleb, Adrian, and their dynamic. Did y’all draw on personal inspiration or broad strokes? Because I remember something in the promo materials about Rosemary’s Baby being cited as inspiration and I very much picked up on those vibes.

MJA: So I think the Rosemary’s Baby inspiration is just in certain aspects and especially the paranoia of the film definitely seeped in as the relationship starts to really crumble as the film goes on. There’s also definitely some personal experiences I’ve had. I think what was really important about creating the dynamic for me and what we really honed was that the relationship is so subjective in a way where I don’t think Caleb or Adrian is necessarily in the wrong. I think that, for me, there’s a grey area where they both definitely care about each other and they both don’t have the courage to break up and acknowledge that they’re not supposed to be together. I see that a lot with gay men where they become intertwined enough that it just seems like more heartache and stress to accept those things. I think that’s what’s so heartbreaking about Caleb and Adrian is that they don’t have the courage to break it off.

BP: I think a lot of it too is that straight people get to find out their red flags early on and figure out what they want and what they don’t want in relationships. I feel like as queer people we’re kind of stunted and we don’t get an opportunity to really explore that until your twenties if you’re lucky and live in an accepting enough city or family. I still have friends that are figuring that out now. And you mentioned earlier that with people coming out later in life, they get in relationships and it’s like a dire “I need to date this person” even if you’re not compatible with this person. It’s like with Caleb and Adrian: they’re both not at fault and they both have flaws, but it comes with the territory and they’re afraid that they’ll never find anybody else. It’s a wild world but I think it’s getting better with that stuff. I think that younger generations will have a lot easier of a time being openly out and about at a younger age which is awesome.

Red: What are your thoughts on the current state of queer horror in both the independent and mainstream scenes? Personally I think that y’all are killing it in the independent scene, and I think that Salem Horror is a perfect encapsulation of what queer independent horror can be. But now there’s elements of queer horror seeping into the mainstream recently like They/Them or Evil Dead Rise, and I’m curious about your thoughts and feelings.

MJA: For me, on an independent level, I find it very exciting. We screened after Alice Maio Mackay, and we saw her new film T-Blockers. It was just really exciting, and that night was beautiful; it was just a nice program, she’s great. Films like The Outwaters and Skinamarink are also made by gay men and we also have Alice doing her thing. It’s really great for independent horror– especially low budget– and I think it’s exciting because we’re in good company. On a mainstream scale, I always feel a little hesitant when it comes to mainstreaming any sort of queer culture. I don’t necessarily know if mainstreaming should be our goal. Also, and Saint Drogo addresses this, how much harm is mainstreaming doing to the culture and is it worth it or is it worth it to keep it? Queer just feels so at-odds with the mainstream that it’s hard for me to decide if it was good. They/Them might be good for young folks still discovering themselves…it wasn’t for me.

Red: Honestly that was the first example I thought of, it wasn’t for me either.

MJA: At some point I’ll probably check out [Evil Dead Rise] within the next week or so. When you go mainstream I think about Drag Race and Bros, for example, and a degree of needing to be palatable for straight people that comes with mainstreaming. I think it’s maybe at-odds with how I want to be. With Death Drop and Saint Drogo we are definitely creating worlds where there probably are straight people in the universe around it. I think that we do a good job of portraying queerness in a way that is and not in a way that has to be portrayed because a straight person might see it. Like the sex scene in Saint Drogo: obviously it's not salacious but we didn’t make it palatable for a straight man for example.

BP: I think the indie queer scene is having a resurgence and uprising. The fact that Kay was able to curate an entire weekend of indie queer cinema is awesome. It’s having a huge uprising. Aside from Alice, we met [K. Pervaiz] who directed Black Lake and Maya, and other awesome people doing their thing. I think in the next couple years you’ll see that the indie queer scene is going to come hard. I hope people aren’t ready for it because I want them to realize this is a serious subgenre that needs some attention. With the mainstream thing, I saw Evil Dead Rise. I didn't know the character was trans. There’s so many movies that cast a trans actor or queer actor and they keep it hush hush on screen and you don’t really know. There’s also a new movie coming out that showcases their lead as a trans character but were misgendering her behind the scenes and are friends with shitty people, and it’s going to be a mainstream film. This is where I get nervous and wonder if this is really representation or if they’re trying to cover their ass and show you’re inclusive. But overall, I think it’s getting better. I think the best queer representation I’ve seen in the mainstream was the Fear Street series that came out on Netflix. It wasn’t my favorite, but how they handled the lead character who was just a straight up lesbian and her and her girlfriend made out on screen. All the characters around her didn’t care about the fact that she was gay, and it wasn’t even a thing. It was handled really tastefully. I think for young people too it’s nice to have that for them to see. There’s been a lot of queer representation that’s kind of tongue-in-cheek, it’s kind of bad. That Wrong Turn remake, that queer representation was so tasteless.

Red: Oh God, I forgot about that movie.

BP: It was so bad, and it angered me as someone that had to go through conversion therapy at a young age. Like maybe we don’t off these people? And the ending really pissed me off. But I think that people are getting better, but we’ll see.

Red: My final question is: as Monster Makeup LLC, I really want to know what is your favorite special effect you’ve ever seen?

BP: I’m still in love with that scene in Hellraiser where Frank comes back to life and that blood drops on the floor. That whole scene is just so gross and crazy. That’s my favorite movie of all time. I’m so in-love with it.

MJA: I might have to take a rain check on this question. I can't think of one. I will say, I am very proud of the meat grinder scene in Death Drop.

Red: That’s like my pitch for people. I have dragged all my friends over to make them watch Death Drop Gorgeous; it’s been a thing since it’s been on Shudder. I’m always like: “Guys, there’s a meat grinder scene. Have fun!”. You brought up Alice earlier. I love to do a So Vam/Death Drop double feature. I’m sure I’ve put my roommates through it, I know I’ve put my really close friends through it. They’ve all become huge fans of Death Drop. This was also just a fun interview for me to do because I was sobbing at the end of Saint Drogo. I’m glad that this was a good, general experience that a lot of people had. Thank you so much for doing this interview with me, this was such a fun time!